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jas142
Starting Member
1 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2002 : 10:00:14
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Hi,
I am a complete newbie. I was wondering the difference between Ninjitsu, ninjutsu, and Bujinkan. I live in south Florida, and there is a "Bukinkat" dojo I found about 3o minutes from me.
What is entailed in training? How is it different from Karate? I am looking for somthing more out of the ordinary, especially training with emphasis on armed combat (katanas, etc) or stealthier movements -- if thats what Bujinkat is... I'll be very happy :)
Thanks for any help you can provide.
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ninja-noob@NL
Regular Member
Netherlands
41 Posts |
 Posted - 07/03/2002 : 10:20:55
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i'm a noob as well ( from the netherlands... :) ) but i can explain a lot.
ninjitsu and ninjutsu are ( as far as i know) the same , only the writing is otherwhise...
the best way to discribe ninjitsu is that is a way of art , a lifestyle.
karate is more of a sport.
within ninjitsu there isn't a competition.
the weapon part is indeed important but as some name it " a weapon is only an extention of the body" ...
bujinkan is the overall name given to ninjitsu ( if i explain it the right way...)
if you can do it without the competition and wanna go deeper then other martial arts then ninjitsu is your thing... :)
people , if i'm totally wrong please correct me!!!! then i also learn from you! thanks! :)
i live in the shadow, i excist in de dark.... |
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Shizen9
Frequent Member
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2002 : 17:29:55
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to jas142: you probably found Paul's dojo, or Felix's dojo if you are closer to miami. Both are very good. You are in good hands.
A good way to learn what you are looking for is to study it more. Coming here and asking questions is a good start. There are hundreds of websites on the internet that have information that will help. Unfortunately there is an equal amount of information that will confuse you.
I'll try to put forth a brief explanation that will answer your questions.
ninjitsu = ninjutsu spelled incorrectly. ninjutsu is the proper romanized spelling of the japanese pronunciation. nin has many meanings, mostly stealth, patience, endurance . . . jutsu = art of, but jitsu in japanese means fact, like in the expression "Jitsu wa . . " = "The fact is, . . ."
You'll also see that spelling alot with jujutsu. Many schools will advertise as jiu-jitsu. Which I think is absurd, but maybe it helps people pronounce it. I don't know.
The bujinkan is an organization that teaches martial arts, specifically 9 complete systems. 3 systems that specialize in ninjutsu and 6 others that contain their own armed and unarmed combat techniques.
"Bukinkat" is something I've never heard of. Perhaps you misspelled bujinkan? I think shidoshi Felix in Miami has the nickname of bujin kat, and that might be where you came up with that.
As a correction for ninja-noob, the best way to describe ninjutsu is not just as a way of art or a lifestyle. Anything can be an art or a lifestyle. The meaning of ninjutsu is more specific: it is the ways and means used by ninja to accomplish their goals. Based on the philosophy of nin, those goals are usually accomplished by using stealth, trickery, unorthodox fighting methods, special tools, etc.
Since the bujinkan teaches much more than ninjutsu, we don't just learn how to be medieval japanese James Bonds. Most of the training is for the same purpose as modern karate - personal self defense. Not all karate is for sport. Individual schools decide whether or not they want to compete. If the only thing they focus on is winning competitions, then that is what they will be good at. If all they concentrate on is effective self defense, then they will be good at that. Many karate schools do do both.
Bujinkan taijutsu (all the martial arts of the bujinkan) is meant for self defense and not for competition, so we don't train for or participate in competitions. It just wouldn't be feasible. We learn how to throw sand in people's eyes, break bones, or cut someone using their own knife in order to save our lives. It is hard to recreate that sort of combat in a sport environment.
Bujinkan training is pretty out of the ordinary from what I've seen of other martial art's training. There is a lot of emphasis on weapons, and stealth is built in to many of the movements.
I said I would keep it brief, so I'll stop here.
Let me know what dojo you found in south FL, jas (Felix in Miami or Paul in West Palm)?
mdm |
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ninja-noob@NL
Regular Member
Netherlands
41 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2002 : 03:49:46
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shizen , thank you so mutch for all info.
great! just a comment ; there are indeed a lot of websites containing info about ninjutsu ( now i know how to spell it the right way :) ) but the most sites are rubbish.
i allready visited over a hundred sites an i think that there are 10 real good ones...
i'll open een new thread for url suggestions...
i live in the shadow, i excist in de dark.... |
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Darkshift
Regular Member
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2002 : 16:42:53
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It should also be noted that Ashida Kim calls his form ninjitsu,this is a different style of ninjutsu.You should research both Black Dragon and Bujinkan before making a choice on one.
Bujinkan offers more spiritual guidance and ancient knowledge,while Black dragon focuses more on killing and less on warrior ethics.
Choose whatever suits your needs.
I return to the shadows. |
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Robinson
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2002 : 15:37:27
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You are right. I was in a website and it all said was in caps. The word is NINJUTSU not ninjitsu. That pretty much explained everything. I have seen everyone claiming ninjitsu is either fake or is a newbie and has been watching too much fantasy.
Thank You
Robinson
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Shizen9
Frequent Member
USA
134 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2002 : 21:54:38
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RE "It should also be noted that Ashida Kim calls his form ninjitsu,this is a different style of ninjutsu.You should research both Black Dragon and Bujinkan before making a choice on one.
Bujinkan offers more spiritual guidance and ancient knowledge,while Black dragon focuses more on killing and less on warrior ethics.
Choose whatever suits your needs."
It should be noted that Ashida Kim is regarded by many to be little more than a fraud, a nutcase, and generally not healthy to associate with (not because of his martial arts skill, which may be pretty good. I think he does kung fu or something) because he corrupts a lot of young minds with his own version of reality concerning "ninjitsu." Now either he calls it ninjitsu because he is ignorant. Some people just don't know how it is spelled, but another hypothesis is that he and others like him know themselves that whatever it is that they are "teaching" is not real ninjutsu, so they change the name and can get away with it, because they aren't teaching ninjutsu, they are teaching ninj*i*tsu. A little bit of kyojitsu tenkan ho if you ask me.
ninjitsu is not a different style of ninjutsu. It is not ninjutsu at all, if you want to get real technical and strict with the definitions, unless of course, someone just misspelled it, like ". . . the ninjitsu aspects of bujinkan budo taijutsu." - it's just spelled wrong, the statement is otherwise correct.
"You should research both Black Dragon and Bujinkan before making a choice on one."
- I agree with doing the research, doesn't hurt to learn, but I don't really see any choice here. "Choose whatever suits your needs." - If the kokuryukai (Black Dragon Society) really is all about the killing, who needs that? Assassins? Go join the CIA or a special forces military team if you really *need* that. Ninjutsu is for self preservation. That is about the only warrior ethics the bujinkan teaches. Of course, the rules state to only teach those who are spiritually pure enough to not abuse the knowledge for their own personal desires, but warrior ethics like that is necessary, or any teenager that reads an Ashida Kim book will think it's perfectly alright to stalk people and kill them.
Ninjutsu is for protecting the self from harm, not to harm others. It is for serving/protecting the family, the community, the nation and the world.
I don't think it would be wise to recommend any neo-ninja, Ashida-Kim-ish style training to anybody here at a bujinkan website. Of course everybody does have their personal choice and I do recommend doing some research on anything before getting involved in it.
Be careful out there. The buj' might downplay some of the cooler looking ninja type stuff and focus more on good ol' martial arts, but I would rather have good knowledge that I can use to protect myself than do most of my training on stealth, assassination techniques, entering methods, blowguns and smokebombs. The buj' does teach all of that and more, but in the proper quantities.
If you are doing research online, you will come across a lot of crap. If you are interested in ninjutsu, bujinkan is the source. Anything else claiming to teach ninjutsu is just lying to you (gembukan, jinenkan excepted as they stem from the buj' anyway). If you want to learn ninj'i'tsu from a neo-ninja American 'master' go ahead. I'm sure it's really cool and teaches good stuff. There's nothing to say that it can't be effective. But if someone says, "I teach ninjutsu" and they don't, then they are lying to you. Do you want to learn from a person that lies to you?
[rant over]
mdm |
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Robinson
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2002 : 23:38:11
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Ashida Kim is
Black Dragon Ninja Clan
Thank You
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Robinson
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2002 : 23:54:10
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the Black Dragon also sounds like something affliated w/ Ashida Kim..
Thank You
Edited by - Robinson on 07/13/2002 23:56:43 |
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Ike
Regular Member
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2002 : 13:21:04
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Ashida Kim is
Black Dragon Ninja Clan
the Black Dragon also sounds like something affliated w/ Ashida Kim..
Ummm....
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Robinson
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2002 : 20:01:15
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Ashida Kim is
Black Dragon Ninja Society... that's a correction
Thank You
Edited by - Robinson on 07/14/2002 20:02:05 |
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ninja-noob@NL
Regular Member
Netherlands
41 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2002 : 09:35:18
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just to ask ; is it normal that ppl involved within ninjutsu are , like , a bit pissed about other {fake} types of budo teachings? i've allready noticed that over here in The Netherlands. Even members of some dojo call other dojo names and stuff....
it seems that it's normal to "guard" your dojo / style... isn't that a bit odd/strange???
( no flame intended / sorry , english is bad , i know... :{ )
i live in the shadow, i excist in de dark.... |
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Robinson
Regular Member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2002 : 09:39:41
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I have been seeing that since I heard about the Bujinkan, and the other x-kans. They are the ones that mostly talk talk talk.
Thank You
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Darkshift
Regular Member
53 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2002 : 01:01:51
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I said earlier that Ashida Kim teachers a form of ninjutsu.I didn't mean to confuse anyone,Ashida Kim teaches bootleg ninjutsu.I've tried talking to him about where he learned his form,but all I got in response was hateful e-mails trashing bujinkan.So as far as I can tell, He teaches sucker punch fighting as performed in a ninja suit.Pick up one of his books to see what I mean. If you only want to sneek and kill, go to him.If you want the real Ninjutsu experience,
bujinkan is the way to go.
It should also be said that Ashida Kim expresses a hatred for the japanese people,so his martial art probably isn't authentic.
Ninja noob asked about the rivalry between dojos.The thing is,most dojo rivalries are not between the schools themselves,but between the members.Its been going on since the begining of ninjutsu.
"Hey iga,you look like dorks"
"No koga,YOU look like dorks"
Its always gonna happen and,as long as no one gets violent,competition between dojos can actually be productive.If we're always tying to be stronger than our rival,we will benefit.
I return to the shadows. |
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ninja-noob@NL
Regular Member
Netherlands
41 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2002 : 04:19:51
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good point... right now there is also a rumour stream going about bad sensei here in Holland.
to my opinion that is not nice to do so.
if you think that your sensei isn't the right one for you , just go and seek for another.
a good sensei will not have any problems with that , i met a guy during my workshop ninjutsu last sunday and he was looking also for a new dojo / sensei.
he wasn't happy about his current sensei so he was looking elsewhere.
i live in the shadow, i excist in de dark....
Edited by - ninja-noob@NL on 07/17/2002 04:21:47 |
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morphics
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2002 : 07:24:06
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When I was in Aikido it seemed that every time a new Steven Segal movie would come out there was some nut trying to open an Aikido dojo somewhere. It seems to be the same thing with Ninjutsu. Every time there is a movie, TV Show, Video Game, etc. Some person thinks he is a ninja and decides to write a book or try to start his own school. Martial Arts will always have fakes and phonies, but you have to do research on an instructor or the style he is teaching before you decide to join. Every time I even see an Ashida Kim book at my book store I just laugh and keep looking because I have read a few of them and I have been more impressed with my old Cat In the Hat collection from so many years ago.
Moody
Edited by - morphics on 07/17/2002 09:02:14 |
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Ninjitsu
