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yoshi
Starting Member
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 11/25/2003 : 13:01:28
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How can you tell the difference between traditional ninpo compared to americanized ninpo? Is there any difference?
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Shizen9
Frequent Member
USA
134 Posts |
 Posted - 11/26/2003 : 13:14:13
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I supppose it's the difference between old and new training methods.
Traditional training would be closer to how the medieval ninja did things, and modern training would include modern training facilities, maybe more knowledge of resistance progression, more training with knives and guns than with swords and spears.
I prefer a mix of the two, personally.
If you are looking for a dojo that is more like one or the other, some things to notice is whether they are closely connected to Hatsumi's hombu dojo, or is it an American school that merely offers "an art based on ninjutsu, x, y, etc."
mdm |
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Shin Kateo
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2003 : 21:00:25
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*Bows* ((um cyber bows..er something)
Hello, you two I'm brand spanking new here...and am Completely obsessed with Ninjitsu...not that phoney crap..i'm sooo
obsessed that my favorite actor is Sho Kosugi! lol...please hold your laughter...i know that that Dudikoff guy screwed the whole world up with a few movies ..and that Animes life Ninja scroll..and Naruto..completely blow Ninjas way out of proportion...but whats else can a guy do to get his Shinobi fix?!?!? HUH?
any way hi !
Rin,Hei,Toh,Sha,Hai,Jin,Retsu,Zai,Zen! |
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Guardian Wraith
Regular Member
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2003 : 12:00:39
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This is in two parts:
First for Shin kateo, then for Yoshi and Shizen9.
Shin kateo, My my my, aren't you a youngin', or atleast wet behind the ears. It's Rin, Pyo, Toh, Sha, Kai, Jin, Rets, Zai, Zen. Based on the Chinese phrase: "Ring p'ing to ze chieh chen li zai chien" meaning: "Before battle, the warriors are assembled in ranks in front of the fortress" -Hayes 1983.
It's Jutsu, not Jitsu. Jitsu, pronounced 'jeetsu' means truth or fact, not way, strategy or art- Jutsu pronounced 'jts'. Now let's say it together 'neenjts'. You wouldn't get away with that one in Japan. And I hate to disapoint you, but Sho Kosugi is just a Karateka actor facinated with the Ninja image. His fighting abilities are all show and suicidal in combat application. This is also true for Ashida Kim, Ronald Duncan, and Toshi tora Yamashiro. Following these anti-social schizos is sheer folly, and could get you killed if not just thrown in jail.
And the only Jubei Ninja I know of was killed by a couple dozen starved rats.
If you want your "Shinobi fix", then stick around and find a good Bujinkan Dojo for the real thing. And have patience, we like to get to know ya real well first.
Yoshi and Shizen9,
I must say that eventhough I fully agree with Shizen9, the words "americanized ninpo" bug me. There's just no such thing. While true Ninpo has existed during ancient times in Japan, it is not WHOLY Japanese. If one were to study the cultures, you'd find Ninpo also had many differences with the Japanese culture which was and largely still is to an extent today based in the "Samurai" views- Largely from the Hagakure- a historical work largely fiction and speculation. (Made popular in the schizo flick; Ghost Dog. The author Tsunetomo Yamamoto, was just a scribe in the Nabashima house in the late 1700's - a peaceful time in relation to Japan's prior history. He was never in any wars, nor a member of the warrior class, he didn't even practice a martial art! Infact, when first published, the Hagakure "hidden behind leaves" recieved lot's of rejection as being empty theory and falsely brutal. The current Tom Cruise blockbuster The Last Samurai, is but the most recent revival of the romanticized Hagakure. Eventhough well done, and the character Ken Watanabe played did exist, (though his name was not Katsumoto), this image of the Samurai that the world has is false. History is even worse with it. That "Last" samurai's fate was actually not in being belly poked by a disgruntled westerner, history has him fleeing from battle in shame inorder to have a peer decapitate him and bury his head in a hidden location in the wilderness so it could never be claimed and the "spirit of the samurai never dies". This, and numerous other incidents based on the Hagakure immortalized it's image. Indeed the "Last" samurai, and the 47 Ronin themselves were self-molded based on that work of fictional romance.
Suicide was not a practice for the true Bushi of Japan. Or else we wouldn't have the historical tales of so many Ronin and the swapping of loyalties among Samurai. Their perspective, the Ninja's perspective and indeed the American perspective on suicide were identical. The emperor was brushed aside during their era and had nothing to do with the bellycut till Hagakure reared it's goofy head.
Daidoji Yuzan's Bushido Shoshinsu is factual. Yuzan lived what he wrote, surviving during 6 different shogun.
The reason I mention the above is because you said "american ninPO" not Ninjutsu, though it makes little difference.
Ninpo/Ninjutsu has been around for nearly 1000 years now, don't be so arrogant as to think that anything could've survived that long, (especially in the war eras of Japan) without adapting to the times and "Modernizing" many times over. Just because it has blazed it's way into the 21st century by perfectly embracing current combat realities and weapons, does not mean it is not traditional, or god help me, "americanized". The whole philosophical and combative essence of Ninpo/Ninjutsu is it's adaptive heart. It is the formless key to fit all locks!
We practice it's weapons of antiquity so as to preserve it's heritage and ancestor's legacies, not to mention refine our abilities to work with the elements of reality. Those weapons are simple and can often be adapted to modern objects. Though the historical and masterpieces seldom are allowed out of the Dojo.
Stick close to Hatsumi Sensei, you'll see.
have a good one all!
Wraith
"After the Tenthousandth
triumph,
Yet a beginner.
Onward to what has ever
eluded me."
Edited by - Guardian Wraith on 12/30/2003 12:08:21 |
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Kain Doshi
Regular Member
Japan
22 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2004 : 21:37:43
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WOW!!!! I have read many posts on this forum and I have to say that was one of the best. You really know your stuff Gaurdian Wraith. You have my respect. I would like to discuss this further with you.
Through vigilance we find balance. From balance comes purity. From purity comes peace. |
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kenjin
Regular Member
Venezuela
29 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2004 : 13:25:21
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Hello! i'm new writing here, as you notice, but first i'm writing 'cuz reading some post in this forum i find out that the concept of ninjutsu has been misguided(if that is they way to say) or taken with others meanings for example the word of americanized ninpo...
If any of us have ever listened (again my first language is spanish, so if you any mistakes feel free to correct me, please do so) or read any of sensei's thoughts we will realize that ninpo is basicly the way that warriors defended they ideals and if we look around we all are doing that in a different way... But the way someone teaches or instruct budo is the way his/her student will train and learn, so, there isnīt a specific way of budo.
It does not matter how you traing, what matters is the effort you put on it.
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Guardian Wraith
Regular Member
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 09:10:07
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I think your English is doing just fine. Don't worry, being a Minnesota and Canadian boy from birth, my spelling really sucks. Keep reading and exploring and it will get more articulate. I applaude your achievenent already... good work.
I tend to lose meanings with too much wording. I think I made the same basic point more or less with the sentence : "It is the formless key to fit all locks." That's the only way anyone can succeed in Budo. They have to make it their own.
In my Dojo, there are students with many different body types and affinities. And in truth, nobody is exactly like anyone else. Therefore the arts must adapt. The Bujinkan is a wealth of styles and a blessing for this need.
For someone of my characteristics Koto Ryu and Gyokko Ryu are quite effective. But others don't find it quite the same. Ninpo is not even half of the Schools in the Bujinkan, but it's essence of endurance, benevolence, and quiet dignity is found throughout.
Have a good day.
Wraith
"After the Tenthousandth
triumph,
Yet a beginner.
Onward to what has ever
eluded me."
Edited by - Guardian Wraith on 04/29/2004 09:12:27 |
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druss
Regular Member
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 17:25:09
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Guardian Wraith That was an excellent post! I enjoyed reading it! I am fairly new to the Bujinkan, although my interest goes back to when I was a teen in the mid 80s and was fascinated with the ninja craze. I read most of Hayes' books and wanted to train, badly. However, it was not to be. Then last year 2003, I found a Shidoshi nearby and began training.
First, I must say, it is FAR different than what I had envisioned as a teen and FAR better than I would have thought! I find it very rewarding at many levels, too many to describe.
Keep training,
David
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king kurt
Regular Member
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 06:51:14
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yes we all love wraith this forum can be very eductonal for us beginers and help
our spelling even for dyislecsics like
me who cant be bothered to use the spellcheckers and keep typing ninjItsu
which must be a little irritating
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LCPLPunk
Frequent Member
Canada
236 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2004 : 16:43:02
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I think ninjutsu will have to shape itself for the times. Guns weren't around too much back then, so new moves/styles are needed.
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stebucky
Frequent Member
United Kingdom
110 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2004 : 07:35:18
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| Having been in the arts for 19 years, and now 3 years in Ninjutsu, my views on American/Japanese Ninjutsu is its all the same, Ninjutsu evolves to the person who practices it, the more you put in, the more you get out. Being from the UK, does that mean we now have a Britsh Ninjutsu, I don't think so. As for weapons it is good to train with the weapons of old, so long as we train with the weapons of the new, ie. pool cues, ash trays, car keys, biro pens and the like, you'll get the idea. |
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kenjin
Regular Member
Venezuela
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2004 : 12:09:53
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I think ninjutsu is really a M.A that allows the practician (if it is how is said)modify certain aspect of itself in order to adapt to the time period it is. What i mean is that one has to use the basic that the art give us and aply'em to the new era (or something like that) :P
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LCPLPunk
Frequent Member
Canada
236 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2004 : 17:19:28
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Kenjin, i get exactly what u are saying. One thing I find kind of interesting is all the sword training that is still done in Ninjutsu. I understand that it helps with footwork, moving, etc. BUT, nobody uses swords anymore..
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kenjin
Regular Member
Venezuela
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 19:41:14
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Look at it as a tradition, or a cultural influence in the art. It might have other purpouse but i don't really know which is it. Besides, why do the people learn to fight if there is gun power, you might have to fight bare handed, and you might have to use what you learn in kenjutsu while fighting with a stick. There are many ways of look at it, pick yours, and if u don't find one just do it because you like it, like me, and b sure that you will find a way to look at it!
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Tenchu877
Regular Member
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 22:05:41
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I have been training in the Bujinkan for about 8 yrs now. When I 1st started training I was kinda like you LCPLPUNK, I didnt understand why we kept doing the Kenjutsu. Its like wow why keep doing all this useless crap when we could be doing something more important. Over the years though we kept doing the kenjutsu and I began to like it. It teaches so much more then just sword work it teaches taijutsu,distance,flow,and the feeling of fighting against a weapon unarmed when your doing the mutodorijutsu. When you start asking questions and limiting your Bujinkan training to just modern aspects then not only do you take away from the linage and tradition, but you limit yourself and the students you will eventually teach in the future years. A analogy I use is think of things as a puzzle. Without the border you cant complete the whole picture. Taijutsu Kenjutsu Jutaijutsu Dakentaijutsu and so on but they all are part of that picture border, and without each of them its gonna be really hard to finish that picture...
Safe and Spirited Training |
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LCPLPunk
Frequent Member
Canada
236 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2004 : 23:23:03
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I see your point. Me and my girlfriend were bo/ken fighting today, and i kept noticing how it makes you want to flow. I guess with everything, the more u know, the better it goes. :)
Aaron Lucia
Orlando/Maitland Bujinkan |
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Trad ninpo - Amer ninpo
