| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Black Panther
Starting Member
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2005 : 17:40:45
|
What is you guys opinion on mixed martial arts. True, it took America a LONG time to realize that a real fight is a mixture of striking and grappling, like Bujinkan/Ninpo/Ninjutsu/Budo Taijutsu practitioners have known all along. True that Budo Taijutsu is not designed to be a sport and you would have to "soften" it up tremendously for competition. I just want to know if you think a Budo Taijutsu practitioner would fare with in mixed martial arts competition, or would he just dominate due to the limiting rules of sport fighting. Also what would you think Soke Hatsumi and the other "higher ups" would say about that practitioner?
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
|
|
|
HawkMoon
Starting Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2005 : 08:04:42
|
I'm new to Bujinkan, so I'm not an authority figure, by any means. However, I've come to the understanding that the art is not meant to be for sport, as many of the practitioners would like to keep it. I think that if these styles became sport, the whole premise would be degraded. That's one of the things that keeps these styles unique compared to others, like Karate or Tae Kwon Do. I, for one, would hate to see Bujinkan turned into a sport.
I also think that, being the figure he is in the history of the art, Soke Hatsumi (and his fellow masters/students) would feel that these arts being made into a sport would demoralize them & also make them less efficient.
-Kevin |
 |
|
|
vonscooter
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2006 : 00:58:22
|
I know that 2 guys from "ninjutsu" fought in the UFC in the past one guy came in as an alternate and won UFC 3 and another (one of Busseys guys) came in and got owned. that was also before a lot of the modern rules surfaced in the UFC. My own honest opinion is that Budo Taijutsu needs to stay outta the octagon. It is meant for survival not competition and I also believe that in the structure of the UFC that Ninpo can't be accurately represented (imagine throwing in some eye rakes) I'm also pretty sure that Hatsumi sensei would oppose it but I'm not sure what Takamatsu sensei would have said.
|
|
|
|
cpoints
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 14:52:00
|
| Hello Im new to the forum,but I would just like to say that I dont think that Budo taijutsu has any place in the UFC.If you watch the ufc and see all the black belts in this or that fight.It seems like all the skill go's out the window.It turns into rockem, sockem robots. Budo taijutsu is a very skillful art and the fight would be over before they Knew what hit them.Students of Budo taijutsu dont fight for glory,money ,or fame.This is not the way. |
|
|
|
studious_ninja
Frequent Member
Japan
127 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 06:06:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by cpoints
Budo taijutsu is a very skillful art and the fight would be over before they Knew what hit them.Students of Budo taijutsu dont fight for glory,money ,or fame.This is not the way.
I disagree. However lethal budo taijutsu is, most practioners are not skilled enough to take on a trained fighter in their environment. Your post sounds more like wishful thinking. |
|
|
|
tombstone7
Starting Member
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 21:27:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by vonscooter
I know that 2 guys from "ninjutsu" fought in the UFC in the past one guy came in as an alternate and won UFC 3 and another (one of Busseys guys) came in and got owned. that was also before a lot of the modern rules surfaced in the UFC. My own honest opinion is that Budo Taijutsu needs to stay outta the octagon. It is meant for survival not competition and I also believe that in the structure of the UFC that Ninpo can't be accurately represented (imagine throwing in some eye rakes) I'm also pretty sure that Hatsumi sensei would oppose it but I'm not sure what Takamatsu sensei would have said.
|
|
|
|
tombstone7
Starting Member
Canada
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2006 : 21:31:30
|
Steve Jennum won UFC 3 as an alternate (only fought once) and went on to a 2-3-0 record. Not very impressive. He also listed himself as a mixed martial artist. Not a true representative, I would suggest.
[/quote] |
|
|
|
w_makit
Regular Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2006 : 13:16:42
|
Somewhere I read an interesting quote that said to the effect (age is robbing me of my memory) that sparring teaches you how to spar really well. Real combat is nothing similar a mixed martial arts competition. Two reasons that I see. One the UFC bans certain moves and techniques. Specifically the techniques are especially useful in removing a grappler that you have mistakenly allowed to lock onto your arm from said arm. Secondly, how much harder do you think that that guy whose arm is locked up would fight, if he knew that he would be killed by his opponent. One quote from Hatsumi when asked what he would do if someone put him in a perfect arm lock was that he would break his own arm, and then kill his opponent.
The UFC doesn't allow so much, that it only appears to be a bit of a rougher boxing match.
Statistically, out of a UFC fight one fighter will likely go to the hospital, and the other one might go too. What makes you think that a person learning an "art of self defense" would want to do an act like that? Ken Shamrock is what? in his early forties and speaks of being so beaten down and broken that he could no longer be a viable fighter. What does that say about your longevity?
My opinion is why would I want to do a mixed martial arts competition? Watch the competitions in slow motion. I love watching the grapplers v striker matches. It seems that every time the grappler goes in to the striker legs (always seems to be the same move...no?) that the striker always lifts up his arms to assist the transition. Think.....Hicho.
Studious.....you said it perfectly. Though why would we want to fight ANYONE in their "environment"? Why fight someone where they are strong or balanced? Thats not the point of this art. IMHO.... But what do I know?
|
|
|
|
Shadow Wolf
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 12:37:23
|
Hello,
I'm relatively new to the Bujinkan and I have to agree with most of you in that Ninjutsu should not be a commercialized/competitive Martial Art. If you look back into the history of the competitive and/or tournament Martial Arts, you will find that there is a reason Ninjutsu is not among them. |
Edited by - Shadow Wolf on 09/11/2006 12:38:52 |
|
|
|
siyeo
Starting Member
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2006 : 14:25:41
|
| I am a high ranking black belt in the Bujinkan and also teach and train Gracie Jiu Jitsu. I would say the Bujinkan combatant would need to learn more ground fighting skills. The ground game is super technical and often under estimated. I am still amazed how many people still think they will avoid a clinch. There is a guy called Anthony Netzler who lives in Japan and used to train for years with Hatsumi sensei he now trains with the Inoue's in grappling and has done a bit of MMA. I think he thought Mark Kerr in the Abu Dabbi contest. |
|
|
|
solaris
Regular Member
United Kingdom
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2006 : 00:58:28
|
Ninjutsu is not a sport and never could be. Reaon for this:
Ninjutsu is the seeking of harmony and perfection
Adaption to surroundings both personal and enviromental
Perserverance and strength.
Finaly to seek and know the way..
solaris |
|
|
|
siyeo
Starting Member
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2006 : 04:20:06
|
| I think there is a place for testing one's ability with a non compliant partner. I have seen too much training in a light smooth fashion that looks great, but is absolutely useless in a fight situation. I totally understand some people are training in ninjutsu for other reasons than improving their combat skills. However if training is practiced in this way it should really be considered in the same way as tai chi, which is great for developing many things but most forms are not much use in a real fight. If however a certain amount of fighting skills are required, I really think it is important to train with a non compliant partner. At the end of the day it all depends what the practitioner is wanting from the art. |
|
|
|
moose
Starting Member
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 23:34:14
|
The one thing that has drawn me to the Bujinkan is that it hasn't been adulterated and made into a sport like just about every other art that used to be a combat art. The UFC is great for what it is, and I like to watch those guys beat each other to a bloody pulp, but the day I start seeing a bunch of Shihan in the octagon is the day I will have to wonder if I ever understood anything about this art in the first place.
don't listen - hear, don't look - see, don't do - be. |
|
|
|
korovan
Starting Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 21:02:33
|
Hi, I'm pretty new to Bujinkan too, but this is my opinion:
It doesn't matter how well or poorly a Bujinkan fighter would do in a UFC/MMA competition, the true ninja should avoid such displays. Hatsumi-sensei says over and over "don't let the opponent see your techniques": usually he means this in the context of a man-to-man fight. But I think it would do a diservice to all Bujinkan practioners to expose ninpo to too much scrutiny by fighters from other styles: it would negate much of our advantage in real-world combat. Don't show off in the Octagon... just survive/win/prevail/endure in the real world for your own sake and the sake of those you choose to protect.... |
|
|
|
vegas
Starting Member
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 00:26:50
|
| It's important not to forget that you might be stuck fighting a MMA person for real rather than in the ring. It's a mistake to think that you don't have to be prepared for that. You need to be able to avoid taking a fight ending hit and you need to be able to destroy your opponents ability to fight while he is doing everything in his power to screw you up. Fancy tricks can't be counted on to save your hide. You're really going to have to be able to fight, and that's all about training in reality. How hard you can punch really does matter. Ground fighting matters. (and there really is ground fighting in the Bujinkan, it's just not seen often.) Angle of attack and being able to draw your opponent in are huge. In the end it's all the same; One of you is going to the hospital or morgue, and the other's just going to hurt a lot. . . |
|
|
|
nijineko
New Member
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2007 : 23:32:20
|
it does not matter which martial art one knows. either one knows how to fight or one does not. if one studied and practiced sufficently, one might reach the level of being able to be successful in the ufc. would this action be meet with the philosophy of the teachings of bujinkan? go study some more, and the answer will be made clear. by way of a hint, if how you live your life, the things you say, the choices you make, has been changed by your learning of ninjutsu, then you are on the right track.
arukibito ga michi wo erabu ka, michi ga arukibito wo erabu no desho ka? |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Ninjutsu in the UFC?
